AMPTP: Allen “Defies Reality”
The AMPTP is out with its response to the e-mail today signed by SAG NED Doug Allen, saying a strike would not shut down the town.  Variety quotes the AMPTP response:Â
“Today’s SAG statement suggesting that a SAG strike would not have a devastating impact on our industry, in the midst of the greatest economic turmoil since the Great Depression, simply defies reality,” the AMPTP said. “The 100-day writers strike — which resulted in the writers receiving the same terms that the DGA achieved without a strike — cost our economy $2.5 billion. A SAG strike would cost the working families who depend on our industry even more — at a time when everyone is already under extreme pressure by the unprecedented national economic crisis.”
One thing has been confirmed… that is Doug Allen is a liar! Of course a SAG strike would be devastating to members as well as the industry as a whole and even the local businesses outside the industry. But assuming you buy this BS, and if Doug Allen does then he is lying his ass off telling membership a SAV will force the AMPTP to negotiate. Why in the hell would teh AMPTP negotiate when a SAG strike wouldn’t really hurt the industry??? Something is not adding up. There is no way he can believe both so clearly he is lying! What is truly sad is that he isn’t lying to the AMPTP he is lying to the membership he is suppose to be serving. Makes you wonder who is really serving?
This is beyond logic. Mat care to comment.
Now wait a minute.
Doug Allen said that a SAG strike would not shut the industry down.
He did NOT say it would not have a devastating effect on the membership and the industry.
How could he say that?
Only a moron would say that.
A strike authorization – approved or not – would have a devastating effect on all of our members.
Doug knows that.
He merely said that it would not shut the industry down.
No.
It would only devastate the membership and the industry.
He did not say that.
Craig Mazin commented on his “Artful Writer” blog that he can’t discern any coherent SAG strategy. I have to say that the latest Allen letter doesn’t improve things.
What could possibly have possessed Allen & Rosenberg to send out such a message as this? It is so perverse as to be laughable. The idea that a film/TV strike won’t be such a big deal not only defies credulity, it is exactly the wrong point to be making right now. I cannot fathom what they were thinking (or smoking) at 5757.
SAG ought to be trying to strike terror in peoples’ minds (i.e., the studios), not trying to make it all sound like a mere annoyance that won’t really be a big deal. Members who are being asked to vote for a strike authorization need to understand the seriousness of the commitment they are making with a “yes” vote.
If this is SAG’s educational campaign, it is not only disingenuous and deceitful, it is lunacy.
VG
What exactly is confusing about this? Doug Allen has put out a clarifying communication – one of a number that will be coming from the guild – and listed exactly what would be affected, and what would not. I don’t understand the confusion.
Different contracts and various deals SAG has made with indie films and web content, as well as a number of other contracts, will continue to work.
That is simply a statement of fact.
Therefore, the industry will not, in fact, be “shut down” – which is an AMPTP talking point intended to freak out everybody remotely connected to, let alone actually IN, show business. That’s part of their strategy: fear. More fear. Scare them into submission. Threaten. Bully. Ridicule. Condescend. Take out ads trivializing the leadership. And, fear.
However, a TV/Theatrical strike WILL have an enormous impact on Hollywood, and, of course, they are sh****** themselves that SAG may actually end up with the authorization to carry that out, if the AMPTP continues to refuse to negotiate. Which they never have, you understand, right?
All the people calling for Rosenberg’s and Allen’s heads, “to be replaced by… someone who we’re sure will be much better” (translation: “cave” and take horrible deal currently offered) seem to miss this point.
What negotiation?
There hasn’t been one. And that of course, reveals the true intentions of the AMPTP: cut middle-class actors out of the revenue stream in new media. Hold the line and hope the “no” people prevail, and we (AMPTP) never have to actually FACE the REAL threat of a strike, which, of course is the ONLY weapon SAG has that actually scares us, and then watch SAG sign its life away, while the tough bastards we hate, but respect, because they’re not falling for our bullsh** – will be replaced by sheep.
And we can work with sheep
#4 – that’s why they sent that email – by down-playing the seriousness of the situation they hope to get more members to vote YES on the SAV.
“Geeze…if it’s not gonna hurt the industry, and not hur our members, and get us what we want, sure I’ll voe for it.”….is what they hope undecided members will do.
If AR/DA or MF actually laid out all the facts, and painted the real picture, not only would the membership vote no on the SAV – they’d be demanding resignations.
If the SA and resulting strike would not shut the industry down, what is the point of the SA and resulting strike?
My god, down is UP with these people.
Finn
I just find it astounding how the actions of SAG’s leaders have somehow managed to do the impossible: make AMPTP the good guy with the brain.
In # 1, anonymous says…
“…he isn’t lying to the AMPTP he is lying to the membership he is suppose to be serving. Makes you wonder who [he] is really serving?”
Ahem!
Is anyone seriously considering this possibility?
It has seemed to me for some months that in practically every instance, choices are being made by DA and AR that are clearly and demonstrably antithetical to SAG’s best interests. I have only observed these two men in person twice but in neither case did either one of them seem stupid or demented. There are only a few other conclusions a rational person can then reach – and those conclusions have serious legal consequences.
Is anyone in a position to investigate this more fully?
IANAL, and of course I’m making no accusations. But, it’s starting to smell very like a duck!
Wendell
They should just give it up. The 60/40 split in signed petitions is a HUGE statistical sample and a valid prediction of any outcome, within a few points. To think for a second you can boost that to 75/25 is fancy at best. What political education campaign EVER changed 37.5% of the minds it was aimed at?
Unless there is a radical shift in the economy, this won’t change.
To me, this is the most absurd statement DA has yet made. If a strike won’t have a devastating impact on production, then the chances of it being successful are dramatically lessened! This is truly Orwellian! The whole purpose of a strike is to shut down the town until our demands are met. If it won’t have that effect, then WHY strike? How dimwitted can our NED be?
“Today’s SAG statement suggesting that a SAG strike would not have a devastating impact on our industry, in the midst of the greatest economic turmoil since the Great Depression, simply defies reality,†the AMPTP said. “The 100-day writers strike — which resulted in the writers receiving the same terms that the DGA achieved without a strike — cost our economy $2.5 billion. A SAG strike would cost the working families who depend on our industry even more — at a time when everyone is already under extreme pressure by the unprecedented national economic crisis.â€
Greatest economic turmoil since the Great Depression? Unprecedented national economic crisis?
Come on, people. Isn’t there any one of you besides Mr.Mulhern smart enough to challenge these statements?
Why is it always thrown back on to SAG to defend itself in the face of such hyperbole?
“Excuse me, I gotta go sell some apples on the street corner! No, I’ve eight children to feed and I haven’t worked since June, 1928.”
To quote, MM, “Threaten. Bully. Ridicule. Condescend.” That’s right out of the corporate employer’s handbook.
I don’t care what any of think of Doug Allen or SAG MF … you’re not so stupid to believe these statements, are you?
I mean, who’s side are you really on anyway?
today’s LA Times article implies that the negotiating committee will be given its walking papers at the meeting. and a new ‘task force’ will be appointed to sign something with AMPTP
Well, I guess if you don’t think the near-total collapse of Wall Street, an $800+ BILLION national bailout just to stay afloat, 22 states’ bills going unpaid, record unemployment, the last gasps of the American auto industry, record foreclosures, etc., etc., etc., constitutes the greatest economic turmoil since the great depression, and an unprecedented national (GLOBAL) economic crisis, it’s easy to see why you do think this NED and President have done a fabulous job leading your union.
And if you do think “Threaten. Bully. Ridicule. Condescend.†is solely out of the corporate employer’s handbook, it’s also easy to see you haven’t really been reading MM’s posts.
Best of luck on your planet. Ours is in bad shape.
VOTEyes:
- Nearly a fourth of all the jobs lost in the entire country have been lost in California.
- Home foreclosures in California lead the nation and home prices have fallen more than 25% since last year (which means property values have dropped, which means people can’t take equity out of their homes if they’re out of work).
- More than a dozen CA banks have been taken over by the FDIC.
- Unemployment nation wide is higher than at any point since the 1982 recession, and that’s adjusted for population growth. In real numbers, more people are unemployed than at any time since the post WWII recession. The numbers are growing.
- After an awful holiday sale season, most economists think that dozens of retailers will be filing for bankruptcy.
- The CA budget crisis is forcing the reduction of essential services (like cops and firemen).
- The overall economy continues to worsen.
- The UAW, SEIU and other unions have made significant concessions to keep their people working and their industries afloat.
This *is* the worst economic crisis since the Depression (note the word – “since”). If you think it isn’t, you’re wearing blinders. A strike would be devastating to an already weakened economy. Will a strike completely “shut down” the industry? Of course not. Will it stop the vast majority of work in the LA basin and lay off tens of thousands of people? Yes. Including middle class actors, who will have the same problem everyone else will in finding outside work or credit to pay for walking the line.
How long can you sustain yourself through a work-stoppage? Will it be longer than the studios can go with product completed in the pipeline through at least December? The networks (as they transition to AFTRA contracts and reality shows)?
“fear. More fear. Scare them into submission. Threaten. Bully. Ridicule. Condescend. Take out ads trivializing the leadership. And, fear.”
SOUND FAMILIAR?
IT WAS SAG’S PLAYBOOK FOR THE “VOTE NO ON THE AFTRA DEAL” CAMPAIGN!!!!
#12 – “To quote, MM, “Threaten. Bully. Ridicule. Condescend.†That’s right out of the corporate employer’s handbook.”….so then MF operates with the same handbook?
Well, yeah, I suppose if I were a privileged little pansy who expected everything in the world to go perfectly the way I wanted, I might a little upset. Yeah, I see where you’re coming. By the way, are you guys going to parties tonight with a bunch of your broke and out of work homeless friends? Maybe the champagne will clear your heads a little. Oh and … how are you getting to the party tonight? Taking public transportation or worse yet walking? You know, the way people used to travel. You’re driving? You mean, in your own car, alone? Gee, how could you afford it if your home is being taken away from you and you’re jobless?
The point I’m making is EVERY statement AMPTP releases it’s doomier and glommier than the one before. It ain’t that bad out there. We’ve seen much worse. Our economy is more diversified than its ever been. There are still ballplayers signing 100 million dollar contracts, every hotel room in Vegas will be packed tonight AND through the week-end and here’s the best news, numbskulls …
Box Office receipts totaled nearly a hundred billion this year … off less than 1% than in 2007.
Come on. Great Depression? Ha! That’s a good one! You people wouldn’t know poverty if it smacked you in the face!
A SAG strike will not shut the entire town down. Just SAG primetime and features. It will cause great duress to the people in those categories. I have many feature friends who have not worked since June or July. I have many tv friends who have not had time to save enough money to endure another strike this soon after the WGA strike. Therefore a SAG strike will not do what every union knows a strike must do to be efffective…..SHUT DOWN THE INDUSTRY. As a result. If there is a strike it will be long and painful for the people it effects. And the MAJORITY of those people will not be SAG and will not be the corporations SAG is trying to hurt. The other problem is that most SAG members do not work full time as SAG actors. Therefore when they decide to strike, like the auto industry or Boeing workers, they do not take on the financial loses of a strike. They can continue to work their everyday jobs. And that makes them hypocrites. EVERY SAG member on Strike should not be allowed to work at all while on strike. Then their sacrifice for the union cause will have meaning. Otherwise it’s all hypocrisy.
Doesn’t matter what Doug Allen or Alan Rosenberg say, it will be misconstrued and attacked here because they are the “enemy.” Not the AMPTP whose job it is to make the most money and offer the least deal. Oh no, here it is the current leadership of SAG. A leadership who is standing up for our future and not just going along to get along like AFTRA. The leadership who realizes that giving away new media now will disembowel us all later…well, all of us except the Producer/Actors on the A list.
Ironically, the “Allens” are fighting for the rights of all actors, even those who hate them and are willing to take this terrible deal. Think the “economy” is bad now? Wait until we take this deal. You will regret it for many many years to come and actors in the future will look at you with the same disbelief I do now. Why didn’t you stand up for your rights? Why are you so ready to give away everything SAG worked for?
Of course, voting “no” on AFTRA’s deal was the absolute right thing to do, and if SAG had another couple of weeks, it would have happened.
You guys simply crack me up.
Going to war to defend our right to be weak!
No face to face! That’s scary! They might prevail! We might lose cause face to face our arguments fall apart (no face to face debate – remember?)
Give the AMPTP what they want! They’re not the enemy. We’ve seen the enemy, and the enemy is us!(?)
There is nothing tactically or strategically wrong with surrendering now, and, in three years, when they have us in the prison camp, they’ll let us out! How do we know this? They said so! Trust your captors! They’re people too! Why are we demonizing people with millions or billions of dollars who want to take away the middle-class actors abilty to make a living?
Trust US SAG membership. We know WE helped pass these overwhelming votes to send out the SAV, but now that it could actually go out and very possibly pass, we realize we were misunderstood!
As Richard Masur said at the NY meeting:
“What I wrote? Is not what I meant! What I voted for? Is the opposite of what I intended! Up is down! Down is up! Go team? Wrong!
TEAM – GO!!”
You fools deserve everything you’re going to get. I sincerely hope you don’t get it, cause that would mean the smart people overwhelm the dumb people in L.A. Jan. 12th, but if you succeed in totally reversing YOURSELVES – wow, you are gonna have a bitch of a time ‘splainin that bull**** for … well, forever…
Happ-eee New Year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Neil, you wrote:
“And if you do think “Threaten. Bully. Ridicule. Condescend.†is solely out of the corporate employer’s handbook, it’s also easy to see you haven’t really been reading MM’s posts.”
I agree. Also, of that statement has clearly not attended a SAG NB meeting, where those tactics are used religiously by the ones in power. Or perhaps (s)he is a member of the MF gaggle that sits, front and center, at those meetings and never objects when non-MFs are subjected to this conduct … by DA/AR/AMJ.
#16 nails it.
It’s all so starkly disingenuous.
V.
Wow. VOTEyes needs to get his/her face out of the mirror and look around a little more. That he/she and people that he/she knows haven’t been touched by this thing yet is pretty amazing. Maybe a drive up and down Ventura Blvd. to look at the available retail space might help clarify things.
If I hear “SAG was founded during the Great Depression” once more as an excuse to ignore our current down economy and to go ahead & strike – I’ll puke.
When SAG was founded, the Founders worked all of the time – constantly – as did most of the soon-to-be members that were going to join. It was called the Studio System. Contract Players. Background (they were called “extras” then) were not invited to join.
The core reason for the founding of the guild was that the bosses were abusing and taking way too much advantage of the working contract players (and stars, too) under the Studio System.
Comparing the two economies (then and now) and the problems inherent in the acting business (then and now) is not only comparing apples to oranges, but turtles to turkeys.
Um let’s see…student loans in default: check. Bill collectors calling all hours of the day: check. Wondering how I’m going to pay rent, feed the family and try to find work: check!
Thanks current economy that somehow SAG is not a part of.
Seriously. Vote NO for a SAV. In fact, dissolve the current negotiating committee, form a task force that is truly reflective of the membership and current board members and keep the NED, the current Pres and VP out of the mix!
In real solidarity,
Rik Deskin
“Of course, voting “no†on AFTRA’s deal was the absolute right thing to do, and if SAG had another couple of weeks, it would have happened.”
And…
If the rabbi’s wife had balls, she’d be the rabbi.
If a snake had legs it’d be a lizard.
If MM ever stopped making absurd pronouncements he’d be …still MM.
2 out of 3 ain’t bad.
If my grandmother had wheels she’d be a bus.
VG
Neil and Voiceguy
64% votes “yes”
It’s ALWAYS 90% or higher, when a board (AFTRA in this case) recommends a contract.
SAG HAD to respond, since AFTRA had broken an agreement, made in front of the president of the AFL-CIO to bargain together.
Instead, AFTRA broke that agreement, and made a quick, terrible deal with the AMPTP that totally undermined SAG’s attempt to get a good deal.
AS SAG explained the specifics of the AFTRA deal and the downside to voting it up to dual cardholders , the numbers willing to vote “yes” on the AFTRA deal began to
DROP
LIKE
A
STONE
In another two weeks? AFTRA’s contract would have been toast.
Neil and Voiceguy – I can see (deleted) You better cover up. If the queen had balls, she’d be the king.
You’re a coupla (deleted).
Thanks VG!! I’ve never heard that one before…!!
you keep saying it is all someone else fault matt, its the directors, its aftra, why is it never the sag fault, your like the child who says it the other kids fault i didn’t get something. the fault is not entirely on the other unions, actually you sound like allens. plus matt you didn’t have another couple of weeks your contract expired on the 30th and aftra was meant to vote on the 8th of july, the sag was working under old contract conditions while trying to take down another unions deal for selfish purposes and i know that politics but there is wrong and right, thats wrong.
I just wanted to say that just beacause we that Membership First supporters are not as smart as the rest of you people and that we don’t really work as actors like some of you bigshots, doesn’t mean our opinions don’t count. We are people too you know. And last time I checked this is still America and we have rights.
Nick
Blah, blah, blah
DEBATE!
If you’re so sure of yourselves
DEBATE!
yes mf supporter you do have rights but your lovely leader ar has abused those rights again and again eroding support for mf. plus ar has only being putting first his agenda for mf no one elses.
Debate this Summer for the SAG Presidency.
There’ll be time to organize & prepare for it.
Currently there is little to debate – except how high to hang ‘em.
If a strike isn’t going to shut this town down, then why do it?
Seriously? All Pilots go to AFTRA, we lose a few weeks of new shows and SAG dies a slow death. Seems like Alan, Doug, MM and a few others are wanting a strike to go ahead and show the AMPTP whose boss.
Strike equal death to SAG or at least a long stay in the ICU.
Ahhhh….”IF” we only had a few more weeks to get the AFTRA deal voted no. More time to torpedo another union. Ahhh…if only.
Let’s have a debate! This will be so much fun!!!
I go first. Other than the pathetically lame iactor, name one thing MF has accomplished since 2000.
OOh…Ooooh….I got one – more than $600,000 to make us a new web site!