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	<title>Comments on: Diamond on TV-Theatrical: &#8220;It&#8217;s Not For Me to Say&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://www.sagwatch.net/2009/05/diamond-on-tv-theatrical-its-not-for-me-to-say/</link>
	<description>We Support One Union for All Performers</description>
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		<title>By: Stuart Creque</title>
		<link>http://www.sagwatch.net/2009/05/diamond-on-tv-theatrical-its-not-for-me-to-say/comment-page-1/#comment-8607</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart Creque</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 22:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sagwatch.net/?p=1712#comment-8607</guid>
		<description>Pat - quite so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pat &#8211; quite so.</p>
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		<title>By: geo</title>
		<link>http://www.sagwatch.net/2009/05/diamond-on-tv-theatrical-its-not-for-me-to-say/comment-page-1/#comment-8581</link>
		<dc:creator>geo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 17:07:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sagwatch.net/?p=1712#comment-8581</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the insight, Fred.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the insight, Fred.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred W</title>
		<link>http://www.sagwatch.net/2009/05/diamond-on-tv-theatrical-its-not-for-me-to-say/comment-page-1/#comment-8567</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 14:17:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sagwatch.net/?p=1712#comment-8567</guid>
		<description>What the sunset clause does that an informal committment to revisit a subject does not is that it effectively prevents the side making the promise from exacting anything in return for revisiting the subject.  In other words, the AMPTP cannot exact a quid pro quo without risking the NLRB from ruling that they are bargaining in bad faith.  No employer or union wants to be found to be negotiating in bad faith.  The penalties are far too severe, and for outfits that have to negotiate with multiple unions, the risks are only amplified.

During my term at AFTRA H&amp;R, I discovered a technical error in the language of one of the CBA&#039;s.  It was clearly unintentional and undoubtedly stemmed from the fact that old language had been carried forward when some other provisions had been amended in subsequent negotiations.  As the AFTRA employers thrived on ambiguities in the contract, I suggested to union officials that a correction be made in the next negotiation.  

&quot;Can&#039;t do it,&quot; I was told, &quot;They&#039;ll want something in return for fixing the problem.&quot;  

&quot;Even if it is a mutual problem?&quot;

&quot;Especially if it is a mutual problem.&quot;

The old, ambiguous, self-contradictory language is still in the latest version of that Code.  The risk it represent is still there.  If that provision had been covered by a Sunset Clause, it would have been on the table and fixed without the need to exchange anything else for the correction.    

Thanks to the Sunset Clause, the AMPTP doesn&#039;t have the luxury of that position in regard to new media terms. They cannot ask for concessions elsewhere to renegotiate those terms.  They have committed to revisiting the subject, and revisiting it from Page 1, Line 1.  If they don&#039;t, the NLRB can tell them they have to.

Of course, the Sunset Clause will only be effective if the AMPTP abides by it, or if they are forced to abide by it.  It doesn&#039;t mean they are going to act like angels at the table the next time around.  It means, however, they can be forced to live up to the promises they made in this contract to start over.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What the sunset clause does that an informal committment to revisit a subject does not is that it effectively prevents the side making the promise from exacting anything in return for revisiting the subject.  In other words, the AMPTP cannot exact a quid pro quo without risking the NLRB from ruling that they are bargaining in bad faith.  No employer or union wants to be found to be negotiating in bad faith.  The penalties are far too severe, and for outfits that have to negotiate with multiple unions, the risks are only amplified.</p>
<p>During my term at AFTRA H&amp;R, I discovered a technical error in the language of one of the CBA&#8217;s.  It was clearly unintentional and undoubtedly stemmed from the fact that old language had been carried forward when some other provisions had been amended in subsequent negotiations.  As the AFTRA employers thrived on ambiguities in the contract, I suggested to union officials that a correction be made in the next negotiation.  </p>
<p>&#8220;Can&#8217;t do it,&#8221; I was told, &#8220;They&#8217;ll want something in return for fixing the problem.&#8221;  </p>
<p>&#8220;Even if it is a mutual problem?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Especially if it is a mutual problem.&#8221;</p>
<p>The old, ambiguous, self-contradictory language is still in the latest version of that Code.  The risk it represent is still there.  If that provision had been covered by a Sunset Clause, it would have been on the table and fixed without the need to exchange anything else for the correction.    </p>
<p>Thanks to the Sunset Clause, the AMPTP doesn&#8217;t have the luxury of that position in regard to new media terms. They cannot ask for concessions elsewhere to renegotiate those terms.  They have committed to revisiting the subject, and revisiting it from Page 1, Line 1.  If they don&#8217;t, the NLRB can tell them they have to.</p>
<p>Of course, the Sunset Clause will only be effective if the AMPTP abides by it, or if they are forced to abide by it.  It doesn&#8217;t mean they are going to act like angels at the table the next time around.  It means, however, they can be forced to live up to the promises they made in this contract to start over.</p>
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		<title>By: geo</title>
		<link>http://www.sagwatch.net/2009/05/diamond-on-tv-theatrical-its-not-for-me-to-say/comment-page-1/#comment-8563</link>
		<dc:creator>geo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 13:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sagwatch.net/?p=1712#comment-8563</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s no more binding than the expiration date of any contract reopens the discussion of all terms going forward. Yet the hated DVD clause never changed over how many subsequent contracts, did it? At least it isn&#039;t binding on AMPTP to agree to change it. They are entirely free to attempt to insist on the same language next time as a continuation of the status quo.

Are they on notice from the beginning that won&#039;t be acceptable? Sure. And so far as I know, there is general agreement that everyone on both sides of the table knew the original DVD deal was &quot;temporary&quot; too, at the time. I&#039;m not saying the sunset clause has no value at all, but I think the value is actually the promise from guild leadership to its members rather than any impact on AMPTP&#039;s position on the matter. Where it is still problematic is there is no way to remove the original deal from the context when the discussions start next time. Any discussion will still get framed as relative improvement from that baseline. &quot;7/14&quot; residual-free streaming still becomes &quot;50% better! --how can they reject a 50% improvement?!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s no more binding than the expiration date of any contract reopens the discussion of all terms going forward. Yet the hated DVD clause never changed over how many subsequent contracts, did it? At least it isn&#8217;t binding on AMPTP to agree to change it. They are entirely free to attempt to insist on the same language next time as a continuation of the status quo.</p>
<p>Are they on notice from the beginning that won&#8217;t be acceptable? Sure. And so far as I know, there is general agreement that everyone on both sides of the table knew the original DVD deal was &#8220;temporary&#8221; too, at the time. I&#8217;m not saying the sunset clause has no value at all, but I think the value is actually the promise from guild leadership to its members rather than any impact on AMPTP&#8217;s position on the matter. Where it is still problematic is there is no way to remove the original deal from the context when the discussions start next time. Any discussion will still get framed as relative improvement from that baseline. &#8220;7/14&#8243; residual-free streaming still becomes &#8220;50% better! &#8211;how can they reject a 50% improvement?!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Kathy Joosten</title>
		<link>http://www.sagwatch.net/2009/05/diamond-on-tv-theatrical-its-not-for-me-to-say/comment-page-1/#comment-8561</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathy Joosten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 12:19:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sagwatch.net/?p=1712#comment-8561</guid>
		<description>why isn&#039;t the sunset clause binding? What part of the clause can be fudged?  And by the way, at one point during this mess, AMJ did say the goal was a strike.  They wanted that from the beginning</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>why isn&#8217;t the sunset clause binding? What part of the clause can be fudged?  And by the way, at one point during this mess, AMJ did say the goal was a strike.  They wanted that from the beginning</p>
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		<title>By: Pat Skipper</title>
		<link>http://www.sagwatch.net/2009/05/diamond-on-tv-theatrical-its-not-for-me-to-say/comment-page-1/#comment-8555</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat Skipper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 05:02:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sagwatch.net/?p=1712#comment-8555</guid>
		<description>Stuart, it&#039;s especially hard to achieve a slam when there&#039;s no one on base.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stuart, it&#8217;s especially hard to achieve a slam when there&#8217;s no one on base.</p>
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		<title>By: Stuart Creque</title>
		<link>http://www.sagwatch.net/2009/05/diamond-on-tv-theatrical-its-not-for-me-to-say/comment-page-1/#comment-8553</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart Creque</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 04:09:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sagwatch.net/?p=1712#comment-8553</guid>
		<description>WW: it&#039;s like a slugger who thinks the only way to win a game is to hit a grand slam - so he swings for the fences every time, instead of taking the opportunities for solid singles and extra-base hits (or, God forbid, a run-scoring sacrifice).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WW: it&#8217;s like a slugger who thinks the only way to win a game is to hit a grand slam &#8211; so he swings for the fences every time, instead of taking the opportunities for solid singles and extra-base hits (or, God forbid, a run-scoring sacrifice).</p>
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		<title>By: geo</title>
		<link>http://www.sagwatch.net/2009/05/diamond-on-tv-theatrical-its-not-for-me-to-say/comment-page-1/#comment-8551</link>
		<dc:creator>geo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 04:03:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sagwatch.net/?p=1712#comment-8551</guid>
		<description>Y&#039;know, the more I think about this, the more I become convinced the core of the disagreement between factions (the core --not the tactics, which have been nearly uniformly horrific on all levels by MF in recent months) is whether a &quot;bad start&quot; can ever by redeemed later. For MF the answer, based on their reading of the history of DVD, is a resounding &quot;NO!&quot;. I&#039;ve come to believe their &quot;plan&quot; is that even if they can&#039;t have a strike they&#039;d rather have no contract than get off to an unacceptable (in the long term) start with this contract. They still get to &quot;negotiate with the other guilds&quot; in 2011 if no contract is signed in the interim.

This is not an intellectually indefenisble position. The financial losses in this three year cycle pale compare to the losses over the next 25 (or more) years if they are right. I know that&#039;s not a comfort for those with the tyranny of a mortgage payment to make in the interim.

What it rests on, however, is the idea that *no one else* in the labor end of the industry learned anything from the DVD experience. Not U4S, not WGA majority, not WGA minority, not *any* of the creative guilds. You can say the sunset provisions aren&#039;t really binding on AMPTP, and that&#039;s true, but they are psychologically binding on the guilds, and their members are not likely to let that promise go unfulfilled.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Y&#8217;know, the more I think about this, the more I become convinced the core of the disagreement between factions (the core &#8211;not the tactics, which have been nearly uniformly horrific on all levels by MF in recent months) is whether a &#8220;bad start&#8221; can ever by redeemed later. For MF the answer, based on their reading of the history of DVD, is a resounding &#8220;NO!&#8221;. I&#8217;ve come to believe their &#8220;plan&#8221; is that even if they can&#8217;t have a strike they&#8217;d rather have no contract than get off to an unacceptable (in the long term) start with this contract. They still get to &#8220;negotiate with the other guilds&#8221; in 2011 if no contract is signed in the interim.</p>
<p>This is not an intellectually indefenisble position. The financial losses in this three year cycle pale compare to the losses over the next 25 (or more) years if they are right. I know that&#8217;s not a comfort for those with the tyranny of a mortgage payment to make in the interim.</p>
<p>What it rests on, however, is the idea that *no one else* in the labor end of the industry learned anything from the DVD experience. Not U4S, not WGA majority, not WGA minority, not *any* of the creative guilds. You can say the sunset provisions aren&#8217;t really binding on AMPTP, and that&#8217;s true, but they are psychologically binding on the guilds, and their members are not likely to let that promise go unfulfilled.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Giggles</title>
		<link>http://www.sagwatch.net/2009/05/diamond-on-tv-theatrical-its-not-for-me-to-say/comment-page-1/#comment-8548</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Giggles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 02:59:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sagwatch.net/?p=1712#comment-8548</guid>
		<description>The &quot;Moderates&quot; - and I&#039;m one - aren&#039;t going to be preparing vor a strike. They&#039;ll preparing for negotitions, with a strategy and a plan. One item in the arsenal is a strike.

Here&#039;s the main difference between MF, and the rest of the board.

For MF - a stike is the goal.

For the rest - a strike is a tool in obtaining the goal, a contract.

Which would you rather have on your board?

--

WW Response - I think that may be a bit unfair to MF (hard as that may be to believe.) I don&#039;t think their &lt;em&gt;goal&lt;/em&gt; is a strike. They simply don&#039;t have a clue as to how to negotiate a contract without one. They keep repeating that fiction that the only way actors ever get anything is a strike. 

That&#039;s crap. That&#039;s stupid. But you&#039;ll never convince them of that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;Moderates&#8221; &#8211; and I&#8217;m one &#8211; aren&#8217;t going to be preparing vor a strike. They&#8217;ll preparing for negotitions, with a strategy and a plan. One item in the arsenal is a strike.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the main difference between MF, and the rest of the board.</p>
<p>For MF &#8211; a stike is the goal.</p>
<p>For the rest &#8211; a strike is a tool in obtaining the goal, a contract.</p>
<p>Which would you rather have on your board?</p>
<p>&#8211;</p>
<p>WW Response &#8211; I think that may be a bit unfair to MF (hard as that may be to believe.) I don&#8217;t think their <em>goal</em> is a strike. They simply don&#8217;t have a clue as to how to negotiate a contract without one. They keep repeating that fiction that the only way actors ever get anything is a strike. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s crap. That&#8217;s stupid. But you&#8217;ll never convince them of that.</p>
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		<title>By: geo</title>
		<link>http://www.sagwatch.net/2009/05/diamond-on-tv-theatrical-its-not-for-me-to-say/comment-page-1/#comment-8543</link>
		<dc:creator>geo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 01:41:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sagwatch.net/?p=1712#comment-8543</guid>
		<description>Oooh, Asimov quotes will always make me swoon, Stuart. ;)

MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) more or less kept the global peace for 60 years, but it has to be credible on both sides to work. . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oooh, Asimov quotes will always make me swoon, Stuart. <img src='http://www.sagwatch.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) more or less kept the global peace for 60 years, but it has to be credible on both sides to work. . .</p>
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