Player SAG Exit Game? Clicks Yes – UPDATED!!!!
We’re hearing that although the vote was unanimous in favor everywhere, in Hollywood, the number of members who braved the wind and power outages to attend the ratification caucus was enough to overwhelm the rest of the country, and the proposed contract has been rejected. The unofficial tally of the vote in Hollywood was 73-9 against.
In San Francisco, the branch where almost half the work is done, only two members showed up at the meeting. Both voted in favor, but the Hollywood numbers swamped the rest of the country.
AFTRA’s ratification vote will be electronic, with affected members getting their materials in the next week or so.
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Update: Here’s SAG’s official announcement. The final vote was 42 in favor, 73 against.
The official statement hopefully adds that the Guild will be “pursuing further negotiations with the Industry to address the concerns raised by members regarding the tentative agreement.” But Variety quotes an industry negotiator who says that may not happen:
Scott Witlin, who reps vidgame employers at the negotiations, told Daily Variety that it was uncertain if the companies would be willing to return to the bargaining table to sweeten the SAG deal.
Hmmm. Where have we heard *those* words before…?
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Note: an earlier version of the story had a typo in the vote totals. (47 instead of 42 in favor.)
So now it’s B’bye, IVO work … here y’go, AFTRA.
I’d like to see a list of who showed up to vote in LA.
Is that available?
The meeting times/places were stacked against members everywhere else.
SAG Hollywood tanks jobs once again.
V.
Well, AFTRA will simply walk away with the union work, where SAG already was a distant second.
It’s a repeat of TV-Theatrical, just without the rallies and the pictures of Doug Allen on the home page.
VG
SAG leadership is getting what they deserved on this one. If they couldn’t turn out enough votes to offset what they already knew was going to happen in LA, they’ve got to learn how to do it.
The best way to counteract the black eye they’ve gotten is to go to those who rejected the deal in LA and say “We’ll turn the negotiations over to you. Go get the deal you want, if you can, and we’ll support whatever you come back with.” You have to demonstrate there’s a consequence to saying no that doesn’t end with making the objection. Of course, they’ll get to complain that AFTRA will have sold out SAG again, (if, as expected, AFTRA ratifies the contract), but at least they’ll have to be out in the open.
Perhaps it might be wise to wait for the AFTRA vote first. The demographics here seem to be quite a bit different than previous cases.
Mateys:
Me works this contract, and the same folks who were pissed about this onerous provision of discount voices last night at Cagney will also vote it down with their AFTRA ballots. I never vote w. the MF’ers, but this is one the cat dragged in. To weaken this not-so-strong contract now because game companies want us to isn’t reason to vote it up. Best case scenario: affected members vote “no” with their AFTRA ballots, then SAG & AFTRA go in together, and management takes their dead bird off the table. Worst case scenario: we all go back to selling pens & toner over the telephone. Hey, it’s a living.
Ichbin
I am confident that AFTRA will pass this agreement.
People can call it what they want, in the end it’s an extension with bumps.
It’s over in eighteen months, and AFTRA goes back to the table with hard information in hand.
Right now, SAG HAS no table.
For the sake of our IVO community,
I’m heartsick over this.
V.
If the AFTRA contract fails, better bone up on pens.
I suggest recommending the new Sharpie fine line pen.
It writes smoothly, it’s permanent, and it won’t bleed through paper.
V.
If/when AFTRA ratifies it will be the Members doing it. I’d venture to say most of those members hold both cards.
Since AFTRA will do it electronically, more affected members will be able to voice their opinions. I am told that the SF meeting was held during the day? That’s really too bad. Anyway, AFTRA will have the chance to keep the work union. SAG can cry in its beer. If the SAG membership who voted no can get a deal for SAG, terrific.
If not, then those who didn’t show up at the LA meeting have only themselves to blame if they wanted to keep this work in SAG.
One more reason that MERGER must happen..CAPITAL MUST.
They are not going to continue the conversation with SAG. Even if AFTRA votes it down. The presentation was very clear. WE are done with this contract. Just stupid.
If AFTRA votes this down, say goodby to union games. This contract generates 8 million dollars in member earnings. The session is $800 for four hours work. The atmospheric voice deal is an entry portal for performers who want to work the contract, but haven’t had the chance yet. We retain the 135% bump for remote delivery, which is the future of gaming and which the employers are paying. And we set up an employer/employee committee to resolve problems, which we haven’t had in this contract.
I know people that earn their health coverage just from this contract. The contract was “negotiated” under the watchful eyes of members across the country that work this contract. A hand full of pig headed folks in Los Angeles, many of whom don’t work the contract short sightedly voted this down. I hope AFTRA can vote the thing up and keep the work union. Maybe, if they do, somewhere down the road the two unions can negotiate this contract together. But I wouldn’t hold my breath. The gaming companies are getting tired of getting dumped on by a handful of LA looneys. Thees looneys are the reason that SAG has no games in production, and hasn’t had for a while. This is not my definition of success.
From all reports, the only ones in the AFTRA NB room who voted against this contract were the MF infiltrators from LA … who, btw, don’t work this contract.
The MF mission: seek and destroy.
Unbelievable.
V.
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Admin. Response – That’s not accurate. The MF crew did all vote against, but they were joined by one or two others from the Los Angeles local who said they were voting to reflect the expression of opinion from those who had appeared at the AFTRA caucus.
What should give you hope, though, is that there are more than 2000 AFTRA members who actually work the contract and who will get ballots on it. Not just 79 in Hollywood who can take SAG out of the interactive business.
I work Interactive regularly and for anyone to call the tentative agreement “an extension with bumps” shows they have no clue about what is being proposed. Do you work this contract, Vested?
The Atmospheric Voices provision is a serious change, and anyone who works Interactive knows it. Some may be willing to accept it to increase the likelihood of joint negotiations in the future, but almost no one views it as positive on its own merits. This was a producer concoction that’s been presented as “take it or leave it” — and even those at SAG who recommended the contract for larger reasons were clear about not liking the Atmospheric Voices provision.
For you to blithely state that “It’s over in eighteen months,” as if the Atmospheric Voices changes will just magically disappear makes me think you probably DON’T work this contract.
And this isn’t a political thing at all. I’ve read this site enough to know where you come down and I’d agree with you in a heartbeat that MF has been bad news for SAG, and I’m thrilled that they’re no longer in control. But the people who work Interactive and oppose this contract come from all sides.
There’s no doubt in my mind that the best solution is for AFTRA members to vote the contract down and for SAG and AFTRA to insist, together, on fixing the Atmospheric Voices language. Despite the producer’s “take it or leave it” stance, they aren’t going to be able to produce the top games without union voice actors. Sure, they can produce lots of games non-union — they’re already doing that — but the stuff that’s done union is done union for a reason. If AFTRA and SAG stick together on this thing, right now, I know they can improve it.
Vested..
this will prove to the members in LA that if they don’t man up, put on their Big Boy Pants and throw trollops out of office, it’s their own damn faultwhen it costs them jobs. Don’t cry about SAG, don’t blame AFTRA when LA members lose work because of these selfish MF zombies who can’t think their way out of the house.
“they aren’t going to be able to produce the top games without union voice actors”
I am not an actor, but I do play lots of games. I am always amazed at this sentiment. It clearly comes from people who don’t play, or even understand games. Most gamers couldn’t care less about the voices. In fact, most gamers think the storyline fillers are annoying and jump past them.
Halo, Call of Duty, Madden NFL, Guitar Hero, and Wii Bowling are all successful despite a voice track, or lack thereof.
I can assure you that as long as the engine programmers, modellers, animators, and to a lesser degree writers (sorry, writers have more to do with a game’s success than any voice track) are employed, there will be many top games, “without union voice actors”.
Bella
The point here is that AFTRA members (many of them hold both cards…many of them didn’t get to go to the caucuses I would imagine as LA only had 70 show up when over 500 in the LA area do the work) may just vote this up.
You guys are really COUNTING on the fact that AFTRA members (who are us as well) will say no to this contract. What if they don’t? What if most of the folks who couldn’t make it to the meeting in LA are really pissed and will vote the contract up when they get the ballot?
I don’t get it. But it is up to you guys to figure out. I hope to work it someday but it will be under AFTRA if at all.
I’m just curious, Bella, doesn’t the fact that we only have 20% of this market influence your decision at all? I mean it’s not even close to half the productions that go union? Did you not consider the fact that if we and AFTRA get parity and expiration dates in line (which this contract does for the first time) that we can infiltrate this market, make producers more dependent on union VO folks and get non union to become union? Did it not influence you to consider that at that time we can really force the producers back to the table because they have more to lose?
I guess not. We’ll see what the ballots from AFTRA bring us.
I’m afraid that this work is gone for SAG members and it won’t come back.
The work is going elsewhere precisely because of the attitude exhibited by Hollywood members who have no earthly clue about budgets at game companies. No matter how you slice it, there is less money in the game industry than TV and Film despite large profits. It is simply a matter of scale.
SAG Hollywod risks losing the last of it’s credibility and relevance with all of these bad decisions.
X% of zero dolars is still zero dollars. I guarantee AFTRA will ratify the contract, and in this crappy economy, once again SAG will be left behind. *shakes head*
~JC
When AFTRA ratities the contract it will be another reason to merge.
We all get to work this contract when we are one union.
If AFTRA does not ratify the contract then I think that this work will be lost to union members for many years.
Thanks for clarifying, Admin.
I always prefer facts to rumor.
V.
So, now we just have to wait for SAG to run its campaign trying to convince AFTRA members to vote “no” on the AFTRA contract.
VG
Several thousand UNION actors do this work and all of SAG got taken out of the game by a vote of 73 to 41! Unreal.
Hmmmmmmmm….that scenario sounds familiar, VG….(and expensive, if memory serves)…and ultimately unsuccessful on SAG’s part.
What’s the line about “…history repeating…”?
Jeez, Locke, when you put it THAT way …
OY.
V
Let qualified AFTRA members vote and then do your thing based on the results. Is this so difficult? Are you trying to impact that vote, or just anticipating it? If anticipating it, to what end? It won’t change the SAG vote. That is what it is.
What is the point of potentially putting yourself on the wrong side of a popular vote of the members (from BOTH unions) unless you’re a voter in this instance and trying to impact that vote before it is final?
If AFTRA votes it up by a sizeable margin there will be plenty of opportunity to smack SAG voters around if you feel that appropriate –what do you gain by anticipating that result? I know what you lose if you’re wrong –but what do you gain if you’re right?
geo
I think that it’s not unusual to anticipate these things. The point of talking about it is that this situation is really pretty sickening when you think about it. To me it is another OBVIOUS reason FOR MERGER. And the economic impact that COULD take place would have been unnecessary had MF not blocked and spread misinformation when we should have and could have merged.
It would have given us better terms in New Media, and in this contract.
I, for one, don’t really care if it is an unpopular position. I fully beleive this is also a reason for voting on a contract ONLY IF YOU WORKED it in the last two cycles…even three cycles. That’s 6 or 9 years respectively. And this issue points directly at the issue. AFTRA is only sending ballots to those who AFTRA has contracts indicating they work the contract.
That’s how SAG should do EVERY contract.
Yeah yeah…I’m repeating myself.
Just sayin’
Sorry
This issue points directly to that fact.
One more thing. I think voting on a contract only if you worked under that contract SHOULD NOT be described as “qualified voting” or “affected” voting. No adjective is necessary.
It’s just VOTING. Period. In many associations, members cannot vote on constitutional amendments or elections of officers unless they have attended a certain number of meetings per year. Why is something as important as a contract any different?
We all go through lean times. Six or Nine years of “lean times” means you are no longer familiar with the contract.
Disclaimer. Election of officers is different. Ballots should go to every dues paying member.
You should have been there, AFTRA officers and Staff ran the whole emotional range indignation ,fear,
panic , denial, and disbelief . when those AFTRA members had more accurate information and better
presentation than our leaders.. anyone who claims ,blames infiltration on outside sources are incorrect.
AFTRA is wishing to expand their holds in any and all contracts at the members expense .
I was there and watched the AFTRA staff and elected officials wishing and willing to pass onto members a confessed bad clause that would hamper their members future earnings under that clause.
all that was asked for by an attending AFTRA member was a vote up or down by those in the room..
other wise AFTRA members would not be voting on it now.( leadership would have ratified it for you)
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Admin. Comment: You attended the AFTRA National Board meeting? I doubt it.
Hillberg states:
“You should have been there, AFTRA officers and Staff ran the whole emotional range indignation ,fear,
panic , denial, and disbelief . when those AFTRA members had more accurate information and better
presentation than our leaders.. anyone who claims ,blames infiltration on outside sources are incorrect.”
Which AFTRA meeting was THIS?
When and where was it?
Because this does not describe ANY AFTRA meeting I’ve been to, EVER. And I’ve attended plenty of AFTRA meetings, both local and national, for YEARS.
V.
I think he was talking about the AFTRA informational meeting, regarding the Interactive games contract, in Los Angeles.
That was the meeting, where every AFTRA member in attendance (70+), except one, voted no on the proposed agreement.
Subsequently no more official votes seem to have been taken, at the other cities where meetings occurred. We have only anecdotal accounts and subjective opinions i.e. “a sense of the room was taken”. Whatever that means, “a sense of the room” is not mentioned in the AFTRA constitution in regards to a ratification of a contract.
No, a sense of the room is not in the constitution, though it does serve in the preliminary stages when approaching any contract. It helps us know whicih direction we’re heading. In the end, the referendum is going out to every AFTRA member who has worked the contract in the last three years.
Whatever the results, this will give everyone in both unions a far better idea (than anything else that’s gone on) of where these affected members actually stand on this contract.
I’ve heard – no idea if this is correct, but – the ballot will be sent to slightly less than 2000 AFTRA members.
Someone reading this who has hard data is welcome to provide it. I’d love to know.
V.
Uh Mike?
You said (with the snark font on: “We have only anecdotal accounts and subjective opinions i.e. “a sense of the room was taken”. Whatever that means, “a sense of the room” is not mentioned in the AFTRA constitution in regards to a ratification of a contract.”
When AFTRA got it right. They took a sense of the room and when they dicussed what they heard, saw and got through emails, phone calls etc. from members out of town, they decided how to recommend.
THEN after they make sure through EMPLOYMENT RECORDS with the union, who is actually working the contract, they sent out a BALLOT.
SAG did not. SAG allowed hired hands to assist in this murder of a contract out of sheer and utter GREED that the people who play the leads insisted on keeping all the work for themselves. In doing this, they LOST IT ALL under SAG.
Shameful
So, I have to say, Mike, you are sniping on the wrong union in your statement.