Fake Flap du Jour
A couple of the usual suspects got together to hit the panic button late last night over on Actors Access. They were certain that they had uncovered the smoking gun, a page on the IndieCon site that, at the time, seemed to be advertising an event featuring two AFTRA execs discussing ways to take theatrical projects AFTRA instead of SAG.
There were a couple of problems that didn’t apparently occur to them. First, the event didn’t have a date or time attached. Second the web page listed discussion about an “AFTRA Digital Filmmakers” contract – a contract that doesn’t seem to exist.
Then it turned out that the two AFTRA execs who were listed as participants both said they’d never heard of the event, and certainly had never agreed to participate in it. Then suddenly the web page had changed, taking one of their names and pictures off.
We’re not sure exactly what’s going on, but we do know this: AFTRA sends projects designed for theatrical release to SAG. It’s been their policy to do that for as long as anyone here can remember.
Anyway, here’s the page before the changes:
Creative Solutions Beyond the Set — Union Alternatives and The Film CommissionsJoan Halpern WeiseNational Director of Entertainment Programming AFTRAPaul AudleyPresidentFilmLA, Inc.Todd LindgrenVice President of CommunicationsFilmLA, Inc.Industry professionals discuss the importance of being creative and knowledgeable of your options as a producer prior to shooting your film as well as once your film is ready for the market.AFTRA representative, David Besbris discusses the new digital filmmaking contract available to filmmakers producing high definition and digital films.Additionally, FilmLA President Paul Audley and Vice President of Communications Todd Lindgren explain the incentives and resources available through the city to independent filmmakers producing lower budget content.Discussion topics for this session will include:* The Digital Filmmakers Agreement available via AFTRA (as an alternative to SAG)* Digital Agreements available for producing Web Content* Tax, Financial and Resource Incentives available to filmmakers in CaliforniaWho Should Attend?Anyone interested in producing features and/or content for the web will get a lot of information and insight from this panel. So many resources and alternatives to the norm have been created in the digital revolution to cater specifically toward independent and low budget filmmakers. Many producers are unaware of alternatives to SAG and how they work. You hear all the time about incentives to shoot in certain areas but what does California offer? Many independent filmmakers are forced to shoot in Los Angeles based on their restrictive budgets yet Los Angeles is not always film-friendly. FilmLA will tell you about resources and incentives available to lower budget films shooting within the city.Creative Solutions Beyond the Set — Union Alternatives and The Film Commissions
Joan Halpern Weise
National Director of Entertainment Programming AFTRAPaul Audley
President FilmLA, Inc.Todd Lindgren
Vice President of Communications
FilmLA, Inc.Industry professionals discuss the importance of being creative and knowledgeable of your options as a producer prior to shooting your film as well as once your film is ready for the market.
AFTRA representative, David Besbris discusses the new digital filmmaking contract available to filmmakers producing high definition and digital films.
Additionally, FilmLA President Paul Audley and Vice President of Communications Todd Lindgren explain the incentives and resources available through the city to independent filmmakers producing lower budget content.
Discussion topics for this session will include:
* The Digital Filmmakers Agreement available via AFTRA (as an alternative to SAG) * Digital Agreements available for producing Web Content * Tax, Financial and Resource Incentives available to filmmakers in CaliforniaWho Should Attend?
Anyone interested in producing features and/or content for the web will get a lot of information and insight from this panel. So many resources and alternatives to the norm have been created in the digital revolution to cater specifically toward independent and low budget filmmakers.Many producers are unaware of alternatives to SAG and how they work. You hear all the time about incentives to shoot in certain areas but what does California offer? Many independent filmmakers are forced to shoot in Los Angeles based on their restrictive budgets yet Los Angeles is not always film-friendly. FilmLA will tell you about resources and incentives available to lower budget films shooting within the city.
Who knows where the page will end up, but we’d bet there are already some red faces over at IndieCon. The usual suspects? They don’t seem to get embarrassed, no matter what.
Mr. Edney,
Everybody knows me here as Fred Wilhelms. I don’t use a pseudonym, I simply shorten my name.
I am an attorney that represents performers who are SAG and AFTRA members. I am also the former National Director of the AFTRA H&R Funds. I am neither a vanity card holder or a wannabe. Don’t bother checking with IMDb. I’m not there, but perhaps you can point out the feature at IMDb that indicates an individual knows what they’re talking about other than acting. I can’t seem to find it.
I post here because, as informed as the discussion often is, there are people who occasionally post some of the silliest analysis you can imagine (have you been introduced to Mike? You’re going to love him), and I figure that the subject matter is often important enough to start with real facts, and not imaginary ones.
But enough about me.
You say “My opinion on the merger is that it is a red-herring promoted by the Studios (with the help of Ken Howard et al).”
You also say “I do not believe in conspiracy theories, I only believe in the facts.
If both of these are true, I think it would be very informative to know the facts upon which you have based that very specific opinion.
You also say “Whatever decision the NLRB makes on the 28 current complaints, I will respect their decision. After all they are the same people who said in their 1950′s decision that AFTRA’s only domain was “Live Television”. Yes, things have changed radically since then in the entertainment world, but I fully expect the NLRB to live up to their previous decision.”
I’ve got bad news for you and your expectations, Mr. Edney. The 28 complaints were dismissed as not presenting any factual basis a claim. The three “new” claims clearly suffer from the same deficiency and aren’t going to survive much longer.
I now expect you to do what you promised and publicly state the “poaching” issue is dead. You can do it here, if you want.
I’ve also got good news for you, too. Nothing’s going to happen about merger (except probably some more great theories of how the producers are behind it) until after the contract negotiation, so it shouldn’t be much of a distraction beforehand unless you want to make it one.
Marisa Redanty,
Thank you for being honest and using your real name. If you re-read my last post, I purposely left out your name as I went to IMDB and saw your list of impressive acting roles, which appear to be mostly AFTRA.
Even if we are on opposite sides of an issue. I feel I could have a serious debate with you. The others? Well, how can a you have a serious debate with someone who hides behind a pseudonym and spews venom. They are just not up to the challenge to reveal their real names, are they?
As for the proposed merger, I still think it is better to discuss it after the new contract is finalized, then we can debate the issue all we want. Right now I just see it as a distraction from what is really important – the new theatrical contract.
Even if everyone in SAG and AFTRA agreed on a merger today. It’s going to take years to integrate the P&H plans for example. So there’s no need to rush the merger is there? Let’s concentrate on the proposals for the new contract so we can get a good contract and get the members to ratify it. Then we should discuss merger plans.
Once the new contract is ratified, we will have plenty of time (3 years) to discuss merger plans before the next contract comes up for renewal.
I know where my priorities are right now and the proposed merger isn’t one of them, it’s on my back burner. Getting a good new contract is Number 1 on my list of priorities.
.
Paul, I mistakenly addressed you as Phil in my previous post. I understand that names are important to you, so I won’t let it happen again.
Like Fred, I have no IMDb credits. Unlike Fred, I’m here primarily for entertainment and the rare appearances of some actors who I’ve admired over the years. I’m a fan, so things like that give me a juvenile buzz.
But I do take the issues seriously and try to follow the debates without getting in the way.
Mr. Edney, my real name is “Geo” (which for old online reasons –almost 30 years for me now– I don’t always capitalize), all my friends and most of my family calls me that. It’s short for “George”, and while that useage isn’t as common as “Bob” for “Robert” or “Bill” for “William”, my useage is by no means unique. In fact, I noticed a “Geo” for “George” in the new version of “The Taking of Pelham 123″.
There are some people here who know my last name. I don’t use it because it is generally uninteresting, and I wouldn’t want anyone here to think that I think it is –I’m not an actor, and have made that clear to anyone who reads these boards at least semi-regularly.
I do have some interests in entertainment production beyond being a fan who consumes it, but you’d find them uninteresting for this discussion.
Cruiser says:
July 16, 2010 at 11:08 AM
Yosemitie,
So it’s been almost a week, and if I’m reading you correctly, it sounds like you are asking whether the offending “alternative to SAG” seminar was purely fabricated by IndieCon 100%, or if AFTRA was in any way at all involved in initiating or encouraging such a topic (regardless of whether it ever actually took place). Is that where you’re at?
Cruiser, first I would like to thank you for being civil in your posts.
Now this is my take on this, If as this blog states the 2 AFTRA people had never heard of the panel Indiecon was hosting then the part about AFTRA being there and this supposed contract had to have been purely fabricated. If the 2 never heard about it would mean they were never contacted. So ask yourself why would they just make it up? Indiecon advertised that these people would be there and talk about the new contract. Does that sound like what a responsible company would do? Wouldn’t they know that if what they said were faulse they would be open to a lawsuit? Again why would they do that?
Now you are thinking, but they retracted it so it must have been faulse. Many times when a person or company is threatened with this type of lawsuit they find it cheaper to retract what they say then spend time and money fighting it even if what they said was true.
The page was changed twice, the first time was just to remove Joan’s name but left David’s and the contract still on it. I emailed the Co-Founder John Tidwell about it and this is what he replied with.
[quote]Marc told me that he was the one that signed up Joan. I remember even leaving Joan a voicemail prior to the panel but she never returned my call. This all happens. It’s too bad she couldn’t have attended that panel. She would have made a great addition![/quote]
So they removed her name as she was a no-show, but only her name.
This was before the excrement hit the rotating blades. Was this also purely fabricated? Again why would he do it? What did he have to gain from it?
Now this blog says they have seen a email from Marc saying it was all a mistake, but has yet to post it along with the apology they said was already issued but didn’t have the text yet.
So again ask yourself was it all purely fabricated?
DEAR PAUL
“Thank you for being honest and using your real name. If you re-read my last post, I purposely left out your name as I went to IMDB and saw your list of impressive acting roles, which appear to be mostly AFTRA.”
PLEASE RETRACT. I do not use IMBD nor do I update the credits there. I never have. I looked up myself on IMBD ONCE to see what all the fuss is about.
I don’t think SOPRANOS or the dozen or so Law and Order’s I have done (L&O, SVU, Criminal Intent, Trial by Jury, etc) are AFTRA…no they are SAG. None of my recurring roles ON SAG SERIES were listed either.
NONE OF THE BROADWAY OR REGIONAL THEATRE CREDITS ARE THERE
All the films I’ve done are SAG. None of them were there when I checked THE ONE TIME I looked a few years ago.
The soaps I did are AFTRA and few and far between.
RETRACT, APOLOGIZE FOR YOUR STUPID ‘ASSUMPTON’
I am a proud member of both AFTRA and SAG and of course AEA
Thank You
As for a good and informative debate with you? You just lost my respect by your purposeful BAD ATTEMPT at labeling my loyalty to my union.
You aren’t worthy of me debating you about the weather let alone a union.
Mr. Edney,
Everyone here knows my name is Sheffield Chastain. I don’t use a pseudonym, I simply shorten my name. I find your whole idea that we are all hiding behind pseudonyms and that our opinions and views are only valuable if we have credits on IMDB to be despicable and pathetic. It makes you look amateurish and weak.
Fred has no IMDB credits. But I find him to be more reasoned and well informed about union politics and how it affects actors than a whole pack of your MeFirst crackpots.
You do realize your precious IMDB litmus test has no value and bearing on evaluating an actor’s career, much less their views and understanding of union politics? You do know that, don’t you?
I live in NY. I make my living mostly doing commercials and theater (Broadway, National Tours, Off-Broadway, Regional theater), but I also do VO, Audio Books, and lots of industrials – none of which show up on IMDB. Granted, I’ve never done Background work, so if you think my opinion is invalid because I don’t have as many Background credits as you, well … there’s not much I can do.
Oh, also Paul,
I guess I should have mentioned I’m a member of AEA, AFTRA, and SAG.
And I believe we should all be in one union.
Anti-merger is Anti-union.
Marisa Redanty
From your latest posts it would appear you are not a rational person and are reading too much between the lines. So, I have nothing more to say to you.
Cruiser,
Thanks for being honest about having no credits. That’s okay because we all have to start somewhere. At least I know where you are coming from.
Just my thoughts on IMDB … beside it often being inaccurate….I have met working actor with enviable credits who don’t know the first thing about the contracts they work on – they expect they’re agent/manager/legal rep to handle that. On-set careers also do not correlate to knowing anything about what it’s like to be in a boardroom or in a negoatiation. In fact many have forgotten what its like to be a struggling actor, or the troubles backgroundactors encounter…and frankly, they don’t care.
The Baord should be comprised of a mix of members with vairous experiences under different contracts.
On the same hand, I know many people who serve on committees in SAG or AFTRA, and serve/have served on Boards with less-than-enviable credits, but they have a deep understanding on the contracts, and what it means to negotiate and are assets to their union.
Simply put – one has nothing to do with the other.
As for my ‘name’ there is a major reason I use it – because when I posted with my real name I recieved harrassing phone calls from persons known visits to my door by the MF cult. So choose to keep my voice heard but private.